Hey folks,

As previously mentioned, one of the things I've been working on is a trading/escrow system. I didn't release it before I went away because I noted a lot of ways it could be abused (i.e. sending items to users so you don't get raided, and getting them back if they don't accept the trade etc) and so it's been re-envisioned. I'd like to outline it here to get the feedback of the community.

Any rational suggestions are welcomed.

Trading/Escrow System:

• Trades will be conducted as "escrows". Basically this means that you discuss with the other inmate what you'd like to trade, and once you agree, you set up an escrow.
• Both players deposit the items and cash that is up for trade, and once both parties agree that everything looks good, the items/cash will be released and the trade is complete.
• When creating an escrow, both sides of the trade will be charged fees. The tentative pricing goes something like: 10% of all cash being offered and then there will be tiers of fees for items.
• For example, there may be a "package" that is $500 and allows you to trade up to 6 items. Perhaps one for $1000 that allows trades of up to 15 items etc.
• At this point, I'm unsure if the fees should be split between the users, or if the initiator of the escrow has to pay it (or have an option so you can select who pays: 50/50, initiator, or other party).

• Because setting up escrows and then cancelling it can be seen as a "cheap" way to temporarily hide items and cash from potential attacks/mugs/raids, all escrows will have a 24 hour limit. If the escrow isn't confirmed by both parties at that time, it will be automatically cancelled and you will lose the fees paid.
• Cancelling a trade would result in the loss of your fees as well as the

  loss of 10% of the value of the items you are trading. If you don't

  have enough to pay that fee, you will not be able to cancel the escrow. Admittedly, this can be abused as someone can just NOT cancel it and let it cancel itself in 24 hours and end up not paying the fee. I'm open to ideas on how to improve this.

• Things like amenities do not have a price (to charge the 10% fee on) so they would be calculated as 10% of the favors to cash ratio (which is undecided, but if it were $1000 per favor, then something costing 10 favors would equate to $10,000 in worth and your fee would be $1000).
• Currently unsure if trades should be locked to people in the same prison. I'm leaning toward yes. Doing this would prevent users from sending items to people in higher prisons where things are more expensive. It would also make it easier to determine the value of traded items (since cost of items will be the same when you're in the same prison).

Changes to Open Market

To add to this, as of today, listing items on the open market will be subject to a 10% fee of the total listing amount. Why? Well, aside from being another money hole, people were storing things on the open market at extremely high prices in order to keep them safe. They'd then just remove it from the market when they needed it. This way, if you DO do this, then you'll be paying to do it.

Why 10% up front and not 10% of the sale price? Well, as mentioned, people listed things at huge prices so that no one would buy it. If you had to pay 10% of 1 million dollars up front, you might think twice about listing for that amount wouldn't you?

Another reason to charge up front is so that people don't take advantage of items coming off the market in 14 days. See, if we charged 10% only when it sold or you removed it, you could simply leave it on the market for 14 days and if it didn't sell, it'd automatically be removed for free.

Feedback?

“Cancelling a trade would result in the loss of your fees as

well as the loss of 10% of the value of the items you are trading. If you don't

have enough to pay that fee, you will not be able to cancel the escrow.

Admittedly, this can be abused as someone can just NOT cancel it and let it

cancel itself in 24 hours and end up not paying the fee. I'm open to ideas on

how to improve this.”

A “virtual” or “hypothetical” trade could perhaps be a

solution. I’m not sure how to put this in words… I could suggest a trade with

you; I would suggest 15 energy drink vs 45k of your money. You would then

receive a message (in another mail box specifically for trades perhaps?) and you

could then accept or decline. Taxes would be paid by the buyer if the trade is

accepted. Not enough money to pay taxes? Then maybe people could have a

negative amount of money for this particular situation.

“Currently unsure if trades should be locked to people in

the same prison”

I’m voting yes, it should.

I definitely don't want to get into negatives, and yes, there will be a seperate alerts panel for trades and such ( I also want to make it where you have to confirm that you want to accept money from somoene).

As for trades between prisons, Tommy has made a suggestion that makes sense. We could have inter-prison taxes. I.E. from NJ to AZ the rate is 2:1 so fees would be calculated as such.

We're playing with the idea of a tax system. Here's the nitty gritty.

Possible inter-prison transfer tax system:

NJ to NJ (1:1) = 10% of goods

NJ to PN (2:1) = 20% of goods

NJ to AZ (2.5:1) = 25% of goods

NJ to LA (4:1) = 40% of goods

NJ to [prison after LA] (8:1) = 80%, and so on.

( for added reference: PN to LA (2:1) = 20% of goods )

Favor-to-cash conversion could also follow these trends, i.e. favors in LA are worth $4k where favors in NJ are worth $1k.

Last edited by kingtommy 14 years ago

Oh ok, I change my vote then

But I have to admit that I have trouble visualizing this trading

method, will all fees (trading fee and taxes) be clearly shown before

anything is anitiated? I figure that's a stupid question...

Yes, they will be. One reason it takes me a while to do things is because I like to set up a very clear and easy to use user interface

Well after some discussion I will post here.

I think that taxing the market and specifically trade will actually cause players to horde items and money.  The easier it is to "trade" or sell on the market will encourage more people to spend their cash.

My best idea for a money sink is for when players attack and put in the infirmary we increase the time to make it worthwhile (2-3 hours).  The only way to get out of the infirmary is to either pay the high cost for "urgent care" or through a drug item that can be bought from the item market through the game.

Have 3 different drugs that take 3 different intervals of time off of the hospitalization time.  They are only available through the game (money sink), cannot be found by exploring (no external market) and people can use the drugs to get out of the infirmary faster.  My example was 10, 50, 100 minutes and the drugs could be Morphine, Viodin, and Percocet for example.

Whiskyman attacks Compton and puts him in the hospital for 210 minutes (3 hr 30 minutes).  I could use 2 morphine (200 minutes) and 3 Percocets to get out of the infirmary.

I think the tax on the market is a given.  I think a tax on sending cash to other players is a given.  I just think we are on a very tight line of inhibiting trade here and taking the profit motive portion of the game out of the mix.  If there is no incentive to obtain items and money because they can just be stolen easily.  There is no reason to do the crimes and this will turn into a training game.  I know that I will list less items on the market, and I will be more selective about the ones that I buy (pricewise).  I think trading/bartering between players should be free.  If I trade 10 waterbottles for 5 large waterbottles, I don't understand why I would need to pay a tax on that.  The trade feature is a great idea, it adds some flexibility but there is no advantage as compared to the market.  Why would I go through the hassle of doing a trade, when I can buy from the market and someone else is paying the 10% listing fee.  I just think this will kill all the work put into the trade function because both sides are being charged 10% and the market would be much cheaper to use, because only one side is paying the 10% listing fee.  (If I understand this correctly).

Enough about the details, but the bottom line is a tax will discourage trade, crimes and the passing of items from higher levels to lower levels when games come out.  I know that I spend every dime I make on a daily basis at the market, now I will probably hold more cash and items (horde) because I don't want to give up 10% everytime I list something.  All I will do is pass that cost along to the buyer and it will take longer for those items to sell.

What happened to gangs? did they just get thrown out the window????

Who said anything about gangs being scrapped? Did you read the post?

So Compton: you don't want to see a trading system at all? You feel we should just keep that to gang members?